What were they thinking?

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 04/15/2018 at 17:48 • Filed to: None

0

53

The world’s most awkward gear selector. Dodge Caravan that we rented for a quick 2000-mile weekend trip. Stow-and-go seats that are on crack and NO COMPASS and 23 mpg at 80+ mph and lots of power. I rented a Caravan Crew a few years ago and I liked that package better. This car also has a dungeon where the middle row of seats stores.

And the one night it snows heavily on Donner Summit between February and June is the night we need to cross and there are chain controls. :(

Tristan > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/15/2018 at 18:11

2

At least it’s not a knob *cough*Ram*cough*, or a floppy lever that returns to center *cough*Jeep*cough*, or a floppy column stalk that also returns to center *cough*BMW*cough*.

M.T. Blake > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/15/2018 at 18:11

2

They are also really easy to lock two children inside with the engine running and A/C on. Ask me how I know.

Spanfeller is a twat > M.T. Blake 04/15/2018 at 18:14

0

Remote start?

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/15/2018 at 18:15

2

Wait wait wait wait wait. 23mpg on the freeway? I thought the Jalops told me to want a minivan because they’re “soooooo more economical than an SUV”. Next you’re gonna tell me it doesn’t handle well in the snow, either.

Spanfeller is a twat > Tristan 04/15/2018 at 18:16

0

Honestly I don’t have an issue with the (now old) jeep gear selector, you’d have to be quite careless to miss use it.

Tristan > Spanfeller is a twat 04/15/2018 at 18:20

2

Tell that to Anton Yelchin!

M.T. Blake > Spanfeller is a twat 04/15/2018 at 18:24

4

Yes. The Maui Police and Fire are very quick to respond. They kindly arrived with their lights and sirens and provide a lock out kit. The lights help to draw a crowd to a previously slow speed event. Never before felt so much like a haole before when on vacation over there...

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat 04/15/2018 at 18:31

5

yeah, but you know how the monostable selector works. I’ve been involved in a few research clinics about gear selector design, and in the discussions at the end I mentioned how I think the biggest problem with that gear selector design is that it looks like a traditional console-mounted lever, it does not work the same as one. so if you’re used to the way a traditional lever works, it’s hard to shake the “muscle memory” of “grab lever, push forward once until the lever stops.” with a traditional lever, that puts you in “P.” with the ZF monostable selector, if you just blindly push to the first detent, you’re in “N.”

the other side of that is when you have a non-traditional gear selector (dial/knob, buttons, etc.) it’s so different enough that instinctive behavior goes out the window, and the driver gets used to the new thing after a brief learning curve.

jimz > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/15/2018 at 18:31

0

probably following the Nissan Quest.

Spanfeller is a twat > Tristan 04/15/2018 at 18:32

1

My dad’s jeep has one of those “dangerous” shifters that was blamed for Anton’s death... Look, you can turn the car off in neutral with that shifter, but it warns you, plus once you get out you should be able to notice the car would roll. This could’ve happened with any other car, even a manual car or with the newer shifters too... It was user error, and for as tragic as Anton’s death was, I personally don’t think it was FCA making an unfathomable product.

Tristan > Spanfeller is a twat 04/15/2018 at 18:37

3

I agree with you, but I still think it makes more sense to have a mechanical link to the transmission that locks into position in “park”. People are easily confused.

DipodomysDeserti > Spanfeller is a twat 04/15/2018 at 18:37

1

BMWs automatically shift into park when you open the door, so it’s not an issue.

smobgirl > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/15/2018 at 18:41

0

It allows a nice freezing breeze into the driver’s face when taking it through Nebraska in a blizzard, too.

Spanfeller is a twat > jimz 04/15/2018 at 18:42

1

It is a bit weird, and the fact that you can turn off the engine in Neutral also means that it could be misused, as was Anton’s case, but did it warrant the reaction it got? There is an easy way out, what BMW, JLR, Kia, and Audi did in some of their models which was to put a button for Park, rather than what FCA did with the Jeep (Maserati?) gear selector which does follow the muscle memory thing you said. It is very annyoing in Maseratis (almost impossible to hit Reverse) But I found that in the Jeep it is actually very hard to hit Neutral, and if you move the gear selector with enough force you can go to Park (admittedly you do feel the first two detents for N and R)

Spanfeller is a twat > Tristan 04/15/2018 at 18:44

1

Like literally every other brand does, yes...

Spanfeller is a twat > DipodomysDeserti 04/15/2018 at 18:46

1

Oh yeah, it’s super annoying. If you have the shifter in S mode it also moves the shifter back to P!

However, you can overcome this in Land Rovers (That use the same design) by entering manual mode, I know because whenever I drive one of my friend’s bulletproof range rover we need to open the door to reach the parking ticket dispenser

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Tristan 04/15/2018 at 18:48

0

I like the rotary knob selector. It works well in our pacifica.

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat 04/15/2018 at 18:50

0

IIRC the Audis I drove with it would automatically put the transmission in Park when the door was opened, which FCA didn’t do at first.

Spanfeller is a twat > jimz 04/15/2018 at 18:54

0

I think my Kia also does it... though I’m not certain, I’m used to pushing park, then parking brake, then turn ignition off, then open door so I think I never experienced my Kia doing it. I do know BMWs,JLR cars, and such do it; it´s probably the industry standard with digital shifters.

bhtooefr > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 04/15/2018 at 18:58

2

They tend to get similar fuel economy to a three-row crossover, but with a hell of a lot more space. (Seriously, have you tried to get into the third row of a three-row midsize crossover? They’re fucking cramped!) They don’t get better mileage, usually, though.

(That’s FWD for the Journey. And the Pacifica’s better mileage is likely coming from a combo of a decade better understanding of aerodynamics, and the transmission.)

TBH I wonder why the Sienna AWD is so much worse than the Highlander AWD, here.

Cé hé sin > jimz 04/15/2018 at 19:11

1

And a lot of the more obscure Japanese market models that I see occasionally.

Tekamul > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/15/2018 at 19:14

0

Did the transmission that selector is attached to try to kill you yet?

I had a Caravan rental last year that would just take a snooze when I tried to merge onto a highway. No sound, no fury, just an eternity of deep thought.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Tristan 04/15/2018 at 19:25

0

That looks like phallus...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > M.T. Blake 04/15/2018 at 19:26

0

Oh, that’s awful! You have all of myfeels

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > bhtooefr 04/15/2018 at 19:43

2

Damn if that isn’t the best comparison chart I’ve ever seen.

facw > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/15/2018 at 19:58

0

NO COMPASS

Anytime I drive out of a rental place without a Compass, I consider it a win...

Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/15/2018 at 21:01

0

My work vehicle is a Caravan. The transmission that’s attached to that selector, by whatever means, is worse. It always seems to be hunting for gears on the freeway, at least here in Oregon.

jimz > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/15/2018 at 21:19

0

um, if yours looks like that I’d recommend a visit to the urologist.

Stat.

jimz > Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition 04/15/2018 at 21:20

0

I dunno what could be up; the 62TE isn’t known for being problematic.

Spasoje > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/15/2018 at 21:54

0

Probably the most awkward shifter I’ve ever used...which is ironic, given how damn easy these things are to drive otherwise!

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Spanfeller is a twat 04/15/2018 at 21:58

1

from a technical standpoint yes it is fine. But humans aren’t a perfect programmed machine. It’s after numerous crashes in the 50s when the prnd order was started. Human factors really took off due to a crazy number of aircraft accidents of pilots mixing up gauges and controls. A lot were dismissed as novice mistakes, till the 50’s when the accidents continued amongst highly trained experienced crews. The motto “ just relearn” is tempting, but good design should be intuitive and mistake proof.

Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition > jimz 04/15/2018 at 22:00

0

It’s really lazy to upshift so it has a problem maintaining speeds with the cruise control. When it finally does upshift it jumps two or three gears and takes the engine to redline. It just seems really unrefined. We have three of these vans and they all do it. Don’t even get me started on the “Eco” mode dynamics.

I had a Focus with the DCT, supposedly one of the worst transmissions, and it is miles ahead of the Caravan.

Spanfeller is a twat > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 04/15/2018 at 22:01

0

It is true, but you need to start questioning when it actually becomes user error and not impractical design, I agree we need to focus on making things as comfortable and logical as possible, but at a point something is so obvious that making it more obvious isn’t necessary

You know what is confusing? Ferrari gearboxes, those are a pain!

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Spasoje 04/15/2018 at 23:57

0

The vehicle does drive very well and the seats are not bad either, though hallacious contraptions they are!

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > jimz 04/15/2018 at 23:59

0

Yes. And for similar reading, there’s how the control stick on the Space Shuttle worked versus the stick on a traditional aeroplane.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > DipodomysDeserti 04/16/2018 at 00:00

0

So if you should pop the door slightly before a complete stop, what; wheels lock up?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 04/16/2018 at 00:01

1

Knob or pushbuttons. Other than nostalgia or retro, why even have a lever? The mechanical link to the transmission is long a thing of the past.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 04/16/2018 at 00:03

0

Interesting point(s). I am more mechanically inclined than many or most others, present company obviously excluded, so however the selector is configured, I have an inherent understanding of what it’s doing for me. Most do not. Paddle shifting? Besides you and me and 5 or 6 oppos, who does that?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 04/16/2018 at 00:05

0

23 with a V6 and four big asses and 84 mph and 200 HP or more is impressive. I didn’t drive in any snow, but I’m sure that if you drive it intelligently, it would do just fine.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > bhtooefr 04/16/2018 at 00:07

0

It’s more car in most cases, too. And FWD, so perhaps less drive train. And way more utile. I think it’s apples-to-oranges, really.

Between the valve timing and the 6-speed trans, it’s pretty remarkable what they’re getting in the way of acceleration.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition 04/16/2018 at 00:08

1

Do you leave that Economy button off? We drove the rental 2000 miles across CA, NV and ID. There were a couple of times when it took a moment for the engine power mode to sort itself and to select the appropriate gear, but in all, it seemed ready to shift where it was needed. We ran it fairly hard.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition 04/16/2018 at 00:09

0

Yes, that jump to red line we observed a couple of times. In all, though, I was impressed with how it drove. And the car we rented had 50k miles on it.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > jimz 04/16/2018 at 00:11

0

That console is beyond bizarre. But in the Caravan, my hand gets stuck between the shift nob and the steering wheel. And the shifter action is heavy and clunky. At least that Nissan shifter is far enough away from the steering wheel.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 04/16/2018 at 00:21

0

It’s when I have to deal with something like this:

DipodomysDeserti > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/16/2018 at 00:21

0

Yep. Found this out when I was trying to squeeze into a very tight spot and I opened the door so I could get a visual on where the driver’s side quarter panel was at. Scared the shit out of me as I thought I hit something.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > smobgirl 04/16/2018 at 00:22

0

Not sure which part of my blather you’re responding to here...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > DipodomysDeserti 04/16/2018 at 00:22

0

We do not need these features.

DipodomysDeserti > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/16/2018 at 00:28

0

There’s been several occasions where I’ve hit the “park” button and the vehicle has remained in drive. I’m attentive and am used to driving a manual, so I noticed, but I’m sure your average BMW driver doesn’t notice.

Spasoje > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/16/2018 at 00:44

0

Haha what’s up with the seats?

smobgirl > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/16/2018 at 09:02

0

The placement of the gearshift and/or poor sealing somewhere (at least on the one I rented). If you’re going 75 mph into a -10 degree headwind you end up with cold air blowing in your face.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > DipodomysDeserti 04/16/2018 at 10:45

0

Totally, totally, totally.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Spasoje 04/16/2018 at 10:46

0

They are actually not bad to sit in, but they do something like a cross between The Transformers and a blind person’s cane extending when you pull the rip cord.

In all, that vehicle has quite a bit going for it, but also some ridiculous — and dangerous — things.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > smobgirl 04/16/2018 at 10:48

1

Gotcha. We had plenty of wind — I’m talking National Weather Service wind advisories — driving across hundreds of miles of open country in Nevada and Idaho, but we didn’t get the drafts you’re talking about.

In all, I’d give the car a solid B grade, but it has some stupid and dangerous features.